"Not That Into You" chapter 3 notes

Continuing the series, index here.

Common abbreviations:

G.B. = Greg Behrendt (author)
L.T. = Liz Tuccillo (author)


Chapter 3: …if he's not dating you

G.B. statement: Dates can be distinguished from 'hanging out' by looking for features:

• public excursion
• meal
• handholding

G.B. claim: Guys like hanging out because it means not responsible for your emotions, can pretend not dating you. Asking out on date makes it official and is sign of commitment.

So far, I'm in agreement with G.B. on this, in that these statements are affirmative – "if 'x' happens then we have 'y'". But chapter heading is negative: "if 'x' doesn't happen then not 'y'".

Excuses examined:

'He just got out of a relationship':

I'm torn by this one: the example given involves not just 'hanging out with', but also fucking. In the example given, I think the analysis from G.B. is valid. But where there is just hanging out as an assumed couple, I think the situation is different because (get this) guys have emotions too! But maybe that situation is assumed as being covered by "…He's Not Asking You Out"?

G.B. statement: "Beware of the word 'friend'. It can often be used by men or the women that love them to excuse the most unfriendly behaviour. Personally, when I'm picking friends, I like the ones who don't make me cry myself to sleep."

Principle is good, and applies equally to women using it to justify their own behaviour, too! In example given, is clearly a case of him using her, and that is only okay as long as she's just using him right back for the great sex. The example given says she's doing it not for great sex but to try to win him over "eventually". Definitely in my opinion would signal a case of "not that into you".

'But we really are dating':
Example given says "he's just scared of the word 'boyfriend' and isn't ready for a serious relationship". Asks "Shouldn't I judge him by his actions, not his words?" Timescale given is 3 months of seeing each other/going to events together.

G.B. claim: "Men, just like women, want to feel emotionally protected when a relationship starts to become serious. One way they do that is by laying claim to it. The actually want to say 'I'm your boyfriend' or 'I'd like to be your boyfriend' or 'If you ever break up with that other guy who's not your boyfriend, I'd like to be your boyfriend.' A man who's really into you is going to want you all to himself."

Here's the thing, see: guys' emotions are not static, immovable, fixed things. Just as it can take a while for a woman to decide if she's into someone, same with a man. So if right now, he's saying "I'm not ready to be your boyfriend" it means he's still sorting out how he feels about you. If he's spending time on you, he's interested, wants to know more, likely wants to figure out a) if you're all that into him and b) whether you're someone he can really get into (figuratively speaking – stop it with your dirty minds!) as well. The example implies that she's signalled her interest clearly to him (else why would he reject label "boyfriend"?) so now he's figuring out part b).

I had one situation where a girl was very clearly ready to commit a lot sooner than I was and she took serious offence at the fact that I didn't yet feel I knew her well enough (we'd known each other for 3 or 4 weeks at the time). In the end, I realised that she was not someone I could be "that into" and I was clear about that (resulting in a temper tantrum, which just proved I was right not to commit in the first place).

One clear way to test whether or not he's into her would be if she asks him "I've been asked out on a date by this really cute guy, I think I'm going to say yes and see where it goes." At this point I think G.B.'s claim that "men want to feel emotionally protected" should kick into gear. If he's seriously interested in her, he'll switch tack just like that *snaps fingers* and say something like "but I thought I was your boyfriend". He does that, then it's worth sticking with him for a bit longer to see whether he'll follow through on that statement. If he doesn't then you're just his really close friend but not someone he wants to date seriously.

One thing for sure: my advice in this sort of situation is to give yourself a fighting chance: make sure you have in your own mind a time limit at which you will feel that you are free to start looking for someone else. I've never heard of a guy in this sort of dating-but-not-dating take very long to make up his mind once given a clear indication that he's wanted. It's sometimes said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Don't kid yourself: if he's not moving towards making a commitment (e.g. "I'm your boyfriend") then he never will. Give yourself a time limit, say "this much and no more emotional energy on trying to get him" – and when it runs out, find someone new.

'It's better than nothing':
Example presented is dating for 6 months, see each other every 2 weeks, she expected it to become more often – says "but it's still better than nothing".

G.B. "Is better than nothing what we're going for now?"

G.B. statement: "It's about the guy who wants you, calls you, makes you feel sexy and desired fully. He wants to see you more and more often because every time he sees you, he likes and then loves you more and more."

G.B. statement: "Every 2 weeks, once a month, … may help you get through the day or the week or the month – but will it help you get through a lifetime?"

Slightly worried by the parallels with drug addiction and description of how the desired guy regards his girlfriend!

Other thing to mention: does he know she expects more by this stage? Is it possible he believes she doesn't want more and is afraid to lose her by pushing for too much? Key point: communication about expectations and what you want from a relationship is crucial. G.B. not apparently aware of this in advice!

'He's out of town a lot!':
G.B. claim: "There are ways to travel and be in a relationship, and there are ways to travel and make sure you stay out of one."

G.B. claim: "You can tell which is which by how much he tells you how disappointed he is that he has to keep leaving you"

G.B. claim: "If he's not making a serious effort to make sure that while he's out of town you don't go and find someone else, he's not that into you."

I tend to agree on this one. Goes back to "Maybe we're just different" excuse from ch. 2.

G.B. summary for chapter: I'm perturbed by G.B.'s apparent assumption that any "might-be-a-relationship" scenario involves fucking. G.B. says "You have every right to know what's going on between you and someone you're knocking socks with."

Agreed, but honestly, not every person is in/seeking a relationship in order to fuck – some folks like to wait a lot longer than that, and yet they also face the issues raised in this chapter. So second statement of G.B.: "If at all possible, try to know someone as best you can before you get naked with them" seems inappropriate to this chapter.

L.T. 'Why This One Is Hard':

We know if there's a beginning to a relationship, there's an ending – so want to avoid there being a beginning because the endings hurt.

"Who wants to be that crazy girl who needs to know exactly what is going on the minute she meets a guy? You want to be the cool girl – the girl who knows how to hang out and not be all demanding. That's who I always wanted to be. That's who I always was.

"The thing about that cool girl is that she still gets her feelings hurt. She still has reactions to how she's being treated. She still hopes he'll call, wonders when she'll get to see him again, and if he's excited about being with her. I hate that."

Agree with this point – note that same applies to guys, too - sometimes, inverse: don't want to be the creepy or jealous guy pushing too hard too soon. Sometimes this can turn into "Nice Guy" syndrome.

But now I don't want to be "sort of dating" someone. I don't want to be "kinda hanging out" with someone. I don't want to spend a lot of energy suppressing all my feelings so I appear uninvolved. I want to be involved. I want to be sleeping with someone I know I'll see again because they've already demonstrated to me that they're trustworthy and honourable – and into me. Sure, in the beginning you have to be somewhat cautious about how much you give away. But that caution shouldn't be to make them feel more comfortable; it should be because you know that you are ultimately a delicate, valuable creature who should be careful and discerning about who gets your affection.

Fuck, YES! But, please, I refer my gentle reader to my remarks on Ch. 1 regarding how (some) men feel. This description above is precisely the problem I have now with my dating (or, more often, lack-of-dating) life because, jeez, for all I feel myself and want myself to be resilient and tough and all that, fact is, I'm vulnerable. I'm delicate. I get hurt. So, I want to know that whoever I'm with is someone who will be there, someone who wants me right back. Someone who is into me. But hey – I'm a man, and from the logic of this book, I don't deserve any of that.

G.B. 'This is what it should look like':

Three anecdotes of friends who were definite from the start and ended up getting married – not great advert, really!

From the "points to remember":

"Guys tell you what they feel even if you refuse to listen or believe them. 'I don't want to be in a serious relationship' truly means 'I don't want to be in a serious relationship with you' or 'I'm not sure you're the one'"

Again: guys tell you what they're feeling right now, not how they'll feel in a month's time! Seriously, if he's not sure you're the one then either he needs to figure out whether you're the one or else he needs to figure out you're not (in which case, look out for some of the other excuses too). Assuming that he'd be willing to jump straight into a serious relationship with someone else is just vicious and unfounded (no matter what G.B. says). If you want to know what your chances are like, you need some other indicator.

"If you don't know where your relationship is going, it's okay to pull over and ask."

This is good advice – communication is the key.

"There's a guy out there who will want to tell everyone that he's your boyfriend. Quit goofing around and go find him."

Yes, there probably is. But he's probably an arsehole who'll treat you like dirt because in his mind once he's your boyfriend, he's got privileges and you're his property.

Or is that too cynical?